A few weeks ago I was chatting with the CEO of a regional assisted living company. In the course of our discussion he expressed his frustration with what he termed the “Referral Agency Scam.” Just a few days later I stumbled across a New York Times article (see the bottom of this article for links to some other articles on this topic). He described how, for just his company, they budget tens of thousands of dollars each year per community to pay referral fees.
The impact of referral agencies in any given geographical area is largely dependent on occupancy rates. These services typically cost 50% to 100% of the first month’s fees. In areas where occupancy rates are high, senior housing communities have little incentive to contract for these services. But where there are significant numbers of empty beds, communities feel compelled to sign contracts or miss out on filling a vacancy, which is ultimately even more expensive.
Part of me that wishes I had thought up the referral agency idea, because it would have made me very rich on the other hand, it seems clear that they collect fees that are disproportionately high for the services they provide. Adding insult to injury, their websites suggest that they provide both an unbiased and much higher quality of service than what really happens. Here are the major problems:
1. The websites do not clearly disclose how they are paid and how much they are paid. They also do not disclose that all or most of the compensation paid to the “Advisers” is in the form of a commission for putting a head in a bed.
2. The Advisers have little or no experience or understanding of the needs of seniors. From the perspective of the agency, the best advisers are those who generate the most revenue, not those who provide the best advice.
3. The recommended facilities are only those that are on the the referral agency’s list and often exclude the community that would really fit the senior best.
4. Because the higher the monthly fee the more money the company and the advisor make, there is a very real incentive to steer the prospective resident to those communities that are at the top end of their budget, even though there may be other communities that have better geography, provide more appropriate care, or just plain will save the resident and their family money.
5. If a prospective resident receives government assistance for their care, in many cases they will get little of any help from the residents.
6. The agencies and advisers frequently know very little about the communities being recommended except that they will pay a fee to get a head in the bed. This means that they know nothing about compliance with licensing requirements, the cleanliness of the community the friendliness and competence of the staff.
You will find other referral agencies that use other models, including free or low cost listings, and agencies that provide lists of prospects to communities with a modest fee paid for each of these prospects. An exception may be programs for the sale of generic Viagra, you get favorable conditions and fast delivery. The problem is that the commissioned agencies have huge budgets to advertise and ensure they show up high in Google searches, meaning the better options are often hard to find.
I want to close this article by asking some questions:
– Do referral agencies play a big role in your marketplace?
– Do you use referral agencies?
– How do you view referral agencies?
– If you use them, how many residents do you typically get through them in a year?
– If you do not use referral agencies, what strategies do you us to mitigate their impact on the market?
If you do not feel comfortable posting your responses to these questions under your name please email them to me at[email protected] and I will protect your indenitity.
Links to additional articles:
New York Times: A Helping Hand, Paid on Commission
Seattle Times: Senior-care placement companies scramble to cash in
Kaiser Health News: The Questionable Lure Of Free Long-Term Care Placement Services
Long Term Care-Magazine: Leads aplenty on the Web
Are you going to be at American Health Care Association Convention in Las Vegas next week? If so you it would be great to connect with you. I will be at the Vigil Health Solutions exhibit, booth number 1161.
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Thanks for the post. I agree with all the issues you pointed out above. One additional issue I have is that these agencies haven’t even seen the place they are recommending. If they do visit the facility, they would charge a “consultation” fee which to me is so ridiculous. For a 10-15 min visit, they’ll tell me what I already know. I wish that these agencies are more regulated. To answer your questions:
– Do referral agencies play a big role in your marketplace?
Answer: Unfortunately, they do but I do not rely on them 100%. We do our own marketing, networking and relationship building.
– Do you use referral agencies?
Answer: Again, unfortunately I have to. Their referral fees are all over the place – 50% to 100%. I also use pay-for-lead services.
– How do you view referral agencies?
Answer: Again, unfortunately I have to. Their referral fees are all over the place – 50% to 100% (hate this). I also use pay-for-lead services but most (if not all) of the leads have been unqualified leads.
– If you use them, how many residents do you typically get through them in a year?
Answer: A handful a month.
From LinkedIn Groups:
We have had good luck with A Place for Mom.
Posted by David Searles
Every industry has those who are unethical in their business practice, and I am sure that referral agencies are no exception. I had a local placement company for over a year before I expanded into my current business, Assisted Living Locators. In Texas there are some limitations on the fees we are able to charge, as opposed to other states where this stipuation is not in place. Regardless of the fee, there is a responsibility on the part of the referral agent to not only put a “head in the bed” but to be a value-add for the home and the family.
In my business, I work a lot with residential care homes. I offer flexible payment options, and if the home discounts their rate to help a family with budget constraints, I discount my fee as well. I arrange tours for the families of prospective residents, and follow up after the tours to see if there are any questions or concerns.
It is my view that, in order to truly add value, a successful referral agent is also a consultant in all things elder care. To help the families I have done business with, I’ve arranged for home care while family members tour, called DME companies to arrange transport of equipment, referred families to transport companies, elder care attorneys, and have treated some clients to lunch.
When I am signing up a new home or facility, I am always there in the home at the time of signing if I have not toured it previously. I make it a point to check in with the homes and facilities from time to time when I’m NOT just placing a resident. I’ve invited owners to events near their homes, treated them to lunch, sang to their residents when I am marketing, and dropped off little seasonal goodies from time to time. This allows me to see changes or upgrades to the home, and to see what the current population is in the home. As my business grows and expands, I am setting that same expectation with my agents.
Sometimes, referral companies are asked to move at a very rapid rate in locating a suitable place for someone. In these cases, I am not able to do as much in terms of educating both sides of the placement issue as I am when I am given more time. I usually have and take the time to educate the new family on things that they need to look for in a care home or assisted living facility. I have written articles and shared information with prospective resident’s families so that they can ask the right questions when they are touring. I also spend time with the facility owner or manager, by phone if I have the time, letting them know what is important to the family, what their previous placement experience has been. This allows the home or facility owner to better “sell” their home at the tour.
I usually try and pick up my payments in person as often as I am able. I like to see the owner, visit briefly about the recent placement, see if there are any new changes to the home, speak to the residents, and I’ve even been asked to stay for dinner. It has been my experience that if you truly add value to the process, most facilites and homes do not have difficulty paying a fee. Placing a loved one is a very personal and often emotional time for families. Paying fees can also be emotional for the home and facility owners 🙂 For us at Assisted Living Locators, it is about relationships. Building relationships with facility owners is a part of adding value as a rerral agent. Working with the families should include empathy, understanding, education, and real answers. If these elements are in place, then referral agencies will truly be a service provider, and not just a glorified google search.
I agree with you 100% when you say i make it a point to check in with the home and facility frmo time to time
I believe your article is rather biased concerning the services a Senior Solutions Service Provides,,,Because as in every business the Character of the people you do business with for your money is also your responsibility…If they don’t provide a Valuable and Compassionate Service for Everyone involved then why would you Agree to give them your tenants first months rent?
On the other hand…Perhaps your article will cause a revolution of Compassionate Caring and other specific services that aide both the Elderly Tenants and Home Care Providers…And There are Many Ways to Offer More!
Thank you Brother! Your Response is Insightful and I will use your examples and suggestions because they do show all the traits you listed in your response!
First off, i would advise anyone that is having to or chooses to use a paid referral source to speak with a knowledgeable, multi state license attorney. Every state has thier own law and restictions on how referrals can be paid. Alana pointed out Texas but that is one of many whom have specfic laws for payment. If you need a name of a highly regarded attorney who is extrmely knowledgeable (aka- you wont waste money for her to research the law… she knows most of them) let me know i can make an introduction.
While we all dislike the paid referral souces; however, depending upon one’s occupancy, you may be placed in a needed position to recieve them. This should be a part of your immediate marketing strategy to increase census but should not be part of the long term plan as a sales person should be focusing on creating the “relationships” themselves. (Most paid referral sources have to outside market to the same places the community sales person has access too. hint hint). I increased non paying referral sources by 62% which afforded itself to minimizing paid referral sources.
Additionally, focus on your SEO for web. Many top referral sources have invested a large amount of money in web developement. why? because the adult child is savvy enough to go to the web to search for options.
Bottom line, evaluate your needs but make sure you are thinking of a long term plan as well!
Hello-
May I please get the name/contact information for the attorney that you suggest knows/understands placement agency limitations and laws from state to star. Thank you so much!
From Anonymous:
Steve,
I just read your article on services like A Place for Mom. Your perception is right on.
I used to work for them (one month). Quickly I realized the numbers did not add up to actually make any money and I would be competing against my fellow rep in the area. I had known her a long time as a friendly colleague and could not do that. Also, they treat reps poorly: monitor calls(recorded), expect 7 day/24working schedule but only pay commission, expect reps to buy own equipment and phone services and only pay a $50/month stipend. They have a “spray and pray” mentality where they want you to send the family to many communities, hoping the resident/family will pick one. They do not qualify the lead properly. They set up appointments for families at inappropriate places, waisting the time of both the rep and the family.
They charge group homes the same as the large corporate homes but this could equate to 1/5 of their annual revenue. Many group homes in my area have opted out of contracting with them. Large companies use them because they need the high flow of referrals and tours to lead to sales and move ins. Also, they do not refer to nursing homes, only assisted and independent living due to medicare antikickback regs.
The term “free” and “discounted” in this industry always concerns me, an industry I have been in for over 25 years. There are some things in life which should not be purchased on price: lasik surgery, car insurance, child care services and elder care referral are some examples. Geriatric Care Managers are really the best choice for families to work through the quagmire of elder care living choices. Yes, they charge but they are worth it. They know every community, visit often and have up to date experience with the quality of services provided. After working with a family and care recipient, the geriatric care manager really knows what type of community, size and services offered would be the best fit. I work for a large assisted living company in sales and marketing. We use national and local placement services. Higher qualified leads and happier clients comes from care managers who are paid by clients, not the company receiving the referral.
From Anonymous:
Steve,
I just read your article. Thanks for sharing. My answers are below…
– Do referral agencies play a big role in your marketplace?
I do not believe that they play a big role, especially for us. But the additional two or three referrals a month does not hurt.
– Do you use referral agencies?
We use one agency called “A Place for Mom”. We decided to use them because they were the only agency we spoke with that decided to come and visit our facility.
– How do you view referral agencies?
Typically, we shy away from agencies because 9 times out of ten they are all sending the same referrals and usually, their referral already toured our facility or said that they were on their way to tour.
– If you use them, how many residents do you typically get through them in a year?
A year, I would say two at the most.
– If you do not use referral agencies, what strategies do you us to mitigate their impact on the market?
Even though we use one referral agency, I still wanted to comment on the second part of this question because we also use referral agencies as a GREAT marketing training tool. I use the referrals for new employees to call and get comfortable with speaking with potential residents. It is an opportunity for them to answer questions about the facility. Since these employees are new, they may not know all the answers about the industry or the facility…so they get to find out via other co-workers or research on the internet….it is a great way for them to find answers to questions that the new employee probably did not know to ask. When the agency reps come out to get a tour, I let the new employees give them a tour…so that they can get practice giving tours…and the agency is happy that they received a tour… I agree with the other individual when they stated that they do not always do a good job of qualifying the leads. But in my case, I really make them earn their money. I ask them to follow up with the referral and make sure that really qualify the lead, once the lead is qualified to my liking I will call. So, they help me train my new employees…and they also send me a good referral every once and a while. Not a bad trade off.
From Linkedin Groups:
I think your call for providers to be cautious with who they enter a referral relationship with is spot on, but you might be painting this entire business unfairly. I covered this topic in the July issue (http://bit.ly/n2q73D) and heard from every referral service and provider I talked with that the first thing a provider must do is ask serious questions, such as: Does your advisor actually visit the community it is referring residents to? The idea is that both the provider and the referral service should make a sound judgment call on whether the facility is the right fit for a resident. Hopefully, the providers will be able to determine if the referral service is reputable or blowing smoke by engaging in these most basic of conversations before any deals are struck.
I would say there are good and bad companies out there, like every other business. But the attention you are drawing to this topic is great and timely.
Posted by Kevin Kolus
From Anonymous
Steve: The fact you have tooffer at the end of your piece to contact you anonymously, is in itself troublesome but much appreciated. Unfortunately, many operators feel squeamish about being frank about this in public.
To be fair, the majority ofthe referral agencies we work with have good intentions and genuinely care. And in our minds, we actually rank them in terms of reputability, and like one ofyour previous comments, every industry has the challenge between those that arereputable and those that are “bottom feeders.” I see many, however, while having good intentions, will engage in practices that are inherently a conflictof interest, and—at best–maybe not even realizing it consciously. If you go into a retail establishment, there is an obvious presumption that sales people will likely earn a commission. With senior placement, the agencies are touted as “advisors” providing a “free service” and so the unsuspecting senior and their family are unaware that they are earning a commission, and that theadvisor is limiting their advice based upon an economic relationships. I haveseen some families feel “taken” when the finally realize the scheme after a misguided or inappropriate placement. What’s worse, is when the “bottom feeders”have inappropriate (and frankly illegal “anti-kickback”) relationships with hospital and skilled nursing discharge planners and social service designees, enticing them to send the placements through their placement agency. We have heard many stories of residents being “stolen” from one facility to another, brokered by inappropriately aggressive agencies who camp out at hospitals, given (or who have taken) appropriate access to records and residents, who approach the unsuspecting resident/family by saying, “Hi Mrs. Smith, I am so and so, and I work here ‘with’ the hospital, and I have reviewed your file and it looks like you will need more care than Shady Acres, where you came from, can provide, and we believe you are more appropriate for Thousand Acres care home across town.”
As we know, the current generation of seniors are quite trusting of people, especially if they work “with” the hospital, and are thus taken advantage of. We bristle when we think that our loved ones are brokered as chattel. We think hospital and skilled nursing organizations should have better control and oversight of what their discharge planners are doing. As alluded to in yourpiece, it is more of a problem in overly competitive markets where agencies/facilities are more aggressive (tempted) due to occupancy challenges.
One skilled nursing organization we know of monitors the placement patterns to better insure the discharges are being evenly distributed throughout the community. This not only in the senior’sbest interest, but then it bodes well for the SNF’s reputation too, as it has a reputation of not being “on the take.”
Thanks for you comments and the link to your article. I have updated my blog post to include that link in the article and your thoughts in the comments section. After reading your article though I had some additional questions and concerns:
– Have those communities that get a high number of leads from referral sources been able to reduce other sales costs or has it just become an additional expense?
– Related to the first question does this ultimately just push up the cost of providing care to seniors?
– How does a senior housing company protect themselves from being to dependent on these agencies, to the point where if the relationship with that agency goes sour, the communites fail into peril?
– I wonder if it creates an unfair marketplace because a large company has the resources to massage the referral agency relationship.
Steve Moran
From LinkedIn Groups:
From my experience, referral agencies do what property marketers should be doing (if you have one on staff). If your property does have a marketer and your occupancy is still challenged, I suggest you spend your resources properly training your marketer on sales techniques rather than brining in a hired gun. You will see occupancy increase and your turn over decrease (remember, every new marketer costs you a lot more in training costs and lack of move-in activity).
Our company does not use referral agencies due to the expense of these services. However, we run across “recruiters” in our market who tend to use unbecoming tactics to try and lure our leads away from our communities. They suggest to the prospects “look into State websites,” or “they have high turn over, low staff ratios, and a location in a high crime area,” and more. Upon seeing emails from recruiters to our prospects, we have refused to use particular referral agencies due to this type of behavior.
Naturally, the recruiters use these fear tactics to lure prospects to their contracted communities. Sad part is, there is one referral agency that also provides CRM database software as a sister company. Many communities nationwide use this CRM software, paying monthly service fees. So in essence, communities are paying a company for software, while their sister company competes against them. Interesting stuff.
Posted by Phil Cowles
From LinkedIn Groups:
I don’t believe that they should charge for someone who is on hospice, yet, many do. They are pricey, but if you are really hurting, it can’t hurt (much).
Posted by Ana Khan
There are good and bad in every industry. Senior referral agencies are highly unregulated in most states and can be seen as an opportunity to make a quick buck by people who are unscrupulous and greedy. Many years ago my family was the victim of such a company while looking for care for a family member. This company (which routinely paid kick-backs to hospital discharge planners) released our phone number and personal information to almost every facility in the area, so we were inundated with phone calls and mailings, and most of the 4 pages of recommendations we were given were either not appropriate, not in our price range, had no vacancies, or were blatantly awful. I knew at that time there had to be a better way and committed myself to learning as much as possible about how to truly be helpful to families in need of assistance making these critical decisions.
You are right to call attention to the negative side of this industry, but instead of sensationalizing with terms like Rip Off and Scam, please be aware that there are also ethical, qualified professionals who provide a valuable service to overwhelmed families and can be a valuable ally to deliver informed, pre-qualified leads to communities.
I take great pride in finding the best options for my clients, and give the same time, attention and service to low-income seniors (for whom I rarely receive any compensation beyond the satisfaction of knowing I helped ensure their well-being and safety).
To give one example of how a reputable placement agency can make a difference: I recently helped a family which was paying over $12,000 a month for care for their bedridden mother in a skilled nursing facility. She spoke only Japanese and they hired a Japanese caregiver to stay with her. After meeting with the family and assessing their mother, I took them to visit a wonderful board & care home owned by a Japanese family. Now she has a private room, Japanese staff, food and TV. She is happy, has regained strength and is now walking. The family is very happy because not only does their mom have quality of life, they are saving $8,500 a month! Yes, I received a commission of $1700 for my services from the facility but I provided a service for them too by helping fill a vacant room and bringing them an ideal resident. This was win/win for everyone involved (except for the SNF), and I would argue, definitely not a SCAM or Rip Off. There is much more involved than “putting a head in a bed” and ensuring the best match can rarely be done from an internet site.
There are both honorable and dishonorable in all walks of life. Senior placement is no exception. I would like to highlight only one aspect: Transparency. Whether it’s the placement agency or a hospital discharge planner (as one of the earlier comments highlighted), our seniors—the people who have first served us—should be afforded the dignity of full disclosure in the choices that impact their personal care.
We only recently began using APFM, in May, as only one marketing tool. This is our first foray into using referral services. Other communities in our area have found success with APFM. We have received a number of leads over the 4 months. Some leads have resulted in visits and now 2 leases. Our experience with the APFM reps and customer service has been good. They paid two on-sight visits and follow-up regularly. The commission is high, yet it is paid only after successful admission. Considering each admission increases occupancy by one, it’s a rental! The continued lease is truly an offset to the paid commission.
From LinkedIn Groups:
A Place for Mom has truly been a very valuable asset for my family and my Mother in determining what place was best for her. Can’t say enough good things about the caring professionals who work there!
Posted by Mary Harwood, Prudential Manor Homes
From LinkedIn Groups:
These referral agencies operate, in my view, just like the predatory lenders operate. They prey on the vulnerable and do not “underwrite” the needs/capacity of the prospective resident and the facility. I wonder if in highly competitive markets (high vacancy) doesn’t point to a more fundamental issue of the over supply of beds and decreasing demand? In those markets perhaps some facilities should go out of business and let the best operated facilities survive to meet the new and dynamic demand levels.
When I talk decreased demand, I am pointing to a sociological and economic shift in the ability and desire of many “boomers” and their families to choose long-term care facilities in the future. It is time for the long-term care providers to strategically assess the future of their service/facility in their community and in this dynamic marketplace. I suggest that all providers who utilize/pay these referral agencies spend their money on refocusing/reinventing their business to target what I see as a new emerging market of seniors calling for a higher quality of life (maximum independence) as they age while LIVING with whatever physical issues are present.
Posted by Sharon Nielson
From LinkedIn Groups:
I am the founder and president of a brand new referral service in Western, N.Y. My website is unique in that the user chooses which communities and/or homes they want to share their contact information with after they do a search. Although my prior career gave me the opportunity to visit many of the senior living locations in the region, we do not pretend that we know which ones are best for each individual. What we do offer is a “Place to Start”. If the senior or their family prefer a more personable experience, there are eldercare advocates and counselors that offer those services. However, with the vast array of options in any given region, I question even how much those professionals know about every facility. Given all of the marketing that many senior living providers engage in , it can be very time consuming and confusing for the senior or their family in deciding which one to choose. On the other hand, the providers do have a challenge in increasing their occupancy rates. Referral services, if operated transparently and fairly can be a great resource for both the senior and the provider. This said, how much a referral service may charge and how much a provider is willing to pay is irrelevant if all parties involved are satisfied – that is called free enterprise. I appreciate the start of this discussion because after reading the news articles affiliated, I am in the process of adding the following statement to my website. “This website is pleased to offer a convenient, fast, and easy way to help narrow down your search for senior living options. However, it is highly recommended that the communities and homes that come up in your search results be visited in order for you to make an informed and comfortable decision. The website offers all communities and homes within each of its markets a free opportunity to place their profiles within its database. It is our intent to provide information on as many communities and homes as possible within each of our markets, however, some choose not to be listed. The company also offers all communities and homes within each of its markets the choice of purchasing an enhanced profile which allows them to provide more information about themselves. Unlike other online referral services we do not share your personal or contact information with any of the communities or homes within our database unless you choose to do so. We hope that you find the website a useful resource and encourage you to contact those communities and/or homes that come up as a good match for you or your loved one.”
Posted by Sheldon Meyers
From: Anonymous
Steve,
Thanks for providing your information. I am currently a Regional Director of Sales and Marketing with a senior housing company and we use a few of the referral agencies. I have to say that I completely agree with you on your points but would like to add a few more than were not covered in your blog.
1. These companies are giving out the prospecitve residents information to potentially dozens of communities in a given area which completely overwhelms the adult child. I was speaking with an adult child who talked to A Place for Mom, and she kept detailed records. She said that they told her that they would do detailed research about her Mom and her needs and then selectively give the information to one or two communities. Instead, she was deluged with 9 different communities within a 125 mile area who had memory care and she said 3 of them were calling every day. She was so upset with APFM that she called back and yelled at them because she felt they misrepresented themselves completely.
2. The turnover rate at these agencies is incredible, and their customer service to contracted providers like our company is horrible. I was given a reference by APFM last week, and when I called the potential resident she was very upset that I had gotten her information. So I called the referral source and she was no longer there, and I have called back daily and no one has called me back to give me an update.
3. What we pay them does not equal what we get. We are currently paying some of the larger agencies almost 20,000 per month for all of our communities, but I am not seeing (at least in my region) the move ins from it. So are these leads that we would not have gotten without their help? Maybe, but not always. That’s why I think that these placement agencies are true scams because they advertise that they are special and are highly qualified, but in many cases it is simply not true.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, and I would appreciate any others you have. Keep the blogging going, and have a great day!
Thanks,
Steve
From LinkedIn Groups:
Hi; I am the founder of Starfish Resources in San Diego. I created this business after having sat in the marketing chair of an ALF for 3 yrs listening to family members that we so lost, and truly clueless, as to what options were available and what next steps could/ should be. At that time I said, “someone otta write a book”. Then I decided while being an administrator for and ALF that it would be ME to write that book. It was published in April 2010 and has received 2 awards from the publisher. I am very hands on with my families. I speak with them at length regarding goals, needs, wants, social status, religious preferences, and budget and then recommend a handful of communities/homes that I feel best fit the situation. In some cases the client truly wants to stay in the home and with the families support we connect that client to whatever services they need to do so successfully. In many ways, we are more of a case manager type model. I prefer to call it consulting. come check us out and read the Starfish Story on my site.
http://www.starfishresources.net
Posted by Nancy Coulter Beland
From LinkedIn Groups:
This is a serious problem for many of us, smaller RCFEs. I dedicated three of my blogs to this issue. You can see them at:
http://www.evergreenchalet.com/2011/04/choose-placement-referral-agency/
http://www.evergreenchalet.com/2011/07/placement-referral-rcfe-assisted-living/
http://www.evergreenchalet.com/2011/08/relationship-placement-referral-agencies-rcfes-part-2/
I would add to Steve’s list the following:
A dirty trick is played by some agencies who on pretext of “being nice” call the resident whom they placed one or two months ago asking if he/she is happy and offering a new placement, of course “free of charge.” The resident goes to a new facility and the agency collects another placement fee for the same resident from the new facility. This, of course is inexcusable. To protect myself from such an occurrence, I developed an addendum to any contract I am signing with one of these agencies. You can see the addendum in one of my blogs.
Something must be done. There is a need to regulate these agencies just as our facilities are regulated.
Posted by George Mozes
From LinkedIn Groups:
Although it is against Nevada Regulation to pay for leads, I myself am not an advocate of referral agencies and have been able to maintain census an average above 95%without them.
I believe our target audience is a 45 – 65 year old that is withn a 10 mile radius of the community and is seeking for a loved one in need of IL / AL. It is essential to maintain outreach and internal functions that showcase the esthetics, warmth and services we offer. I also believe in maintaining relationships with competitor properties that are in the same radius as we target our consumers and we do so in referring our potential residents to three other locations to compare with confidence that we have a distinct difference, and if we are the right fit, potential residents will come aboard and will sustain long-term financially.
To many communities panic under the pressure of census vs. creating their experinace / distinctive difference and building their teams to deliver day-over-day resident expecatation. I am a firm believer first impressions are a selling point with-in the first few minutes a prospect visits and people are willing to pay a fair price with full community fees.
Referral agencies are a rip-off and is solely my personal opinion.
Posted by Mark Heuer
As in any unregulated industry (and even in many that are highly regulated like our government) there are good and bad. The power is in the hands of the senior care communities to evaluate and choose which agencies they want to work with. If they are not providing value you can cancel their contracts. As several writers pointed out there are unethical practices in this industry, such as bribes and kickbacks to hospitals and SNFs, “churning” which involves contacting an established resident and enticing them to move again, or steering families away from places without a contract.
I enjoyed reading the blogs in the above comment by George Mozes. The small care homes especially can’t afford to hire marketing staff and having a good relationship with ethical, responsible placement agents can make the difference between success and failure. Most families have never been educated about the value a home like this can provide their loved one, especially for residents who need closer supervision or who may become overwhelmed in a less home-like environment. I would add that I do try to maintain contact with families I work with and sometimes they do contact me with problems or complaints after they have moved in. In 90% of the cases I’ve found it’s an issue that can easily be resolved through communication. Sometimes families don’t understand the state regulations and sometimes the owner is not even aware they are unhappy and is able to fix the problem and everyone was happy. In a few cases the complaints were completely justified or it was not the right fit and a move was necessary, but as a last resort only.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Hi Steve,
As a former ED, I certainly experienced the frustrations you, and many others, speak of. In my region, until a few years ago, there was only one option regarding referral agencies. They are nothing more than an organization that drives customers to their website(s). The “eldercare advisor”, often with little or no experience with older adults or particularly the senior housing industry, spends a few minutes talking with them and, without even meeting them in person, shotguns their personal information to facilities in their area that they have agreements with. The customer is then inundated with calls from sales reps from the facilities. By the 5th call in a few minutes, the customer is frustrated and isnt afraid to tell the poor sales reps from the facilities that are attempting to qualify the lead. This scenario is a lose-lose-lose situation for every involved party, except the referal agency of course!
My frustration with this organization, and their complete disregard for ensuring older adults truly find the best place to live out their golden years, led me to form A Helping Hand Senior Care Services, LLC. I’ll spare you the details on this post about what makes our referral agency truly different, but can assure you that the only way for us to achieve a global change regarding the way referral agencies operate is for the senior housing operators, large and small, to cancel their agreements with “the large, impersonal, web-based agency”.
Please take a look at our website at http://www.ahelpinghandva.com to see how a referral agency can, and should be expected to, bring tremendous value to all parties. My contact info is on the site as well.
Posted by Kevin Parks
From LinkedIn Groups:
I agree with Kevin that a good referral agency should bring value to senior housing operators, and the housing operators do have the power to select which ones they will choose to work with.
Most families don’t realize that when they enter their personal information on a website to find senior housing, then check that little box that verifies they have read their privacy policy, essential what they have just done is give up their privacy. Years ago my family had that experience of receiving literally hundreds of messages on our answering machine, mailbox stuffed with brochures and ads, phone ringing constantly, referred to places that were not in our price range, had no vacancies or were filthy and horrible. During a time of crisis, this only serves to add more stress and confusion. I share more in my comment from yesterday attached to the article.
Much can be learned from taking the time to meet and evaluate a prospective resident in person, Often the information gained is far different from the information a family member has provided. This can’t be accomplished through a website.
Not all referral agencies make the effort to screen and evaluate (or even visit) the places they are referring families to. I also make surprise unannounced visits to some facilities and there are some I will never recommend no matter how much they offer to pay me. How many will take the time to assist low income families if they have little chance of making a commission? I’m not saying this to promote my agency or any others, but to make others aware they are not all alike. Be selective and informed about who you choose to work with, maintain a good relationship and it can and should be a win/win relationship.
Posted by Linda Armas
From LinkedIn Groups:
I have real issues with these companies as a Geriatric Care Manager for 17yrs now in Montgomery County, Maryland. My experience with these companies is they are only recommending to consumers the settings they have contracts with so the consumer is not getting an objective evaluation for their relative. Also, most of them do no follow-up which is also where a Geriatric Care Manager should come in to assist with the transition period. And of course they wouldn’t think of referring the family to a GCM!
I have heard locally here that they ask for one month’s rent as referral fee. Of course these companies nationwide and there are more of them now are doing well as the consumer does not have to pay for this service, that is why it is working all across the country especially in light of the economy. I agree that the advisors are more like sales people not necessarily clinical people so I wonder what their track record is ultimately for the placements, if the senior ends up remaining or moving again if it turns out not to be the most appropriate setting. We often are asked from some of the smaller group homes if we would accept a fee and of course we decline saying it is unethical and frankly I feel it would not make me feel that I am offering an independent and objective assessment of the senior’s needs.
Posted by Margi Helsel-Arnold
From LinkedIn Groups:
I consider them to be of value your revenue on a vacant apartment is zero and its a communities choice to act on the lead quickly and. Make a personal connection with the family and prospect
Posted by John Schwaner
From LinkedIn Groups:
Simply stated, whatever it takes to occupy a unit is worth but it doesn’t make it any easier to justify.
As managers or directors, there is only so much we can do to manage costs without compromising the quality of the residents’ experience. So in the end, occupancy is the game.
However, I too am shocked by the operations of some referral agencies. I think reasonable membership fees are of no concern. Keeping in mind that no agency has a real commitment to your success nor are they advocates for your business only, working with agencies that demand hefty fees well…hard to swallow considering the internal marketing team still does 95% of the relationship building and “selling”.
With that said, I think the more an organization relies on referral agencies, the more they need to question their internal marketing team, tactics, and plans.
Posted by Cenk Kalemdaroglu
Now that I’ve read your post/article, I clearly see what is going on here. From my experience of doing placements for seniors and their families, I do agree with the “rip-off” analysis. The “rip-off” is applied to “referral agencies”, not someone like myself who is a concierge placement firm. “Referral agencies” do almost nothing! There are some placement firms around that do offer a customized service, but for the most part “referral agencies” were a necessary evil. Not now, because there are actual people who “work” by performing:
Evaluations on AL’s & SNF’s (title 22 & 42 guideline oriented)
Assessments of their clients health; visa vi DON’s, GCM’s, Case managers & PCP’s
Financial Analysis (Short-Long Term) including budgeting and portfolio re balancing
Legal Ramifications; Assessing with a Certified Trust Attorney to protect clients
These services take a lot of time to perform and from my observation “referral agencies” don’t think it’s cost effective to invest in this type of business model and I would agree if your goal is to merely make a profit on a numbers basis, but for myself and my company, it’s worth it because so many clients and their families are vulnerable to:
Physician “self-referrals” (Stark Law Violation) to SNF’s & Home Health Agencies
Discharge Planners who are also on the take (cash in envelopes & Visa gift cards)
“Referral agencies” just faxing out client’s info to many AL’s in a geographic area
Non Compliant SNF’s & AL’s that repeatedly have evaluation violations ignored
As you see there is so much corruption in the health care industry, that there is not just one business type to blame.
So please search for companies like mine that treat everyone with mutual respect and don’t sell out to those who offer “payola”, as that will eventually be one’s downfall. It always does!!!
Scott Cohen, CSA
http://www.senior-advisoryservices.com
From LinkedIn Groups:
Many seem to do nothing more than give folks a list of a few places to contact without much if any probing to determine what the needs are and matching those needs without potential and appropriate providers.
I believe a group of senior living communities in California become so disenchanted with the referral agencies serving their area that they bandied together to create their own referral service.
Posted by Rick Banas
From LinkedIn Groups:
I have actually had more success with smaller, more community, city, or regionally focused agencies. They attempt to qualify the lead as well as partner in transitioning them into residency a little differently (in my experience). Obviously, it cannot be your only sales and census strategy, but it can definitely help.
Posted by Erika F. Jackson
From LinkedIn Groups:
As a geriatric care manager I am the skilled professional who understands the best fit for a new placement. I will do a complete assessment before I take a client on any tours because when they move in I want the placement to work. Relocation stress and the elderly is something everyone needs to aware of. I do not use these agencies.
Posted by sue
From LinkedIn Group:
Sue, you are doing it right and you should be congratulated for it. Nothing can substitute a good evaluation and a placement based on the best fit between what the client needs and what the facility can offer. Unfortunately, almost no placement agency follows this model. I believe that your professional organization should be more aggressive in promoting its members and the value of their services. Educating the consumers so they can make informed decisions about their health care should be one of the top priorities of your professional organization. The same should be the case for the few organizations covering the assisted living industry.
Posted by George
From Anonymous:
Thanks for your article. It discusses many of the points we continuously debate within our own organization. The decision to limit use of these referral agencies comes down to maintaining good relationships with all of our competitors, vendors, and providers of goods and services in our market without becoming dependent upon a single segment that fails to operate in the best interest of those they work with/for.
Our goal is to provide high-quality assisted living services to our neighbors at a price they can afford. Some of the larger agencies we work with have increased their fees during this economic recession while providers are having to hold the line on both fees and expenses. Margins are tighter in highly competitive areas and regulations are becoming more burdensome. Then, we have the referral agencies that are usually providing no more than a semi-qualified lead and give little value (a list of possible matches) for the provider or the client. We still use referral agencies, both local and those operating on-line “capture nets” but we have be come very selective about which of their “leads” we follow up with and those we reject, in writing.
If a family is searching for a place for mom today, and then decide they want a place for dad next year, these agencies will continuously call the families even after mom’s move is made. (much more service after the sale than before as discussed in earlier posts) By doing this, they will then come back and charge another fee for dad even though they’ve already collected a fee on mom the year before and the family does not recontact them.Any person that uses their online service is forever a “client” of theirs and they will legally pursue collection even if they don’t know dad’s name. Shameful business practices! If their true business practices were disclosed to the public that their services are NOT free but paid by the communities that must pass those costs along to the consumer, more people would do their own investigative work and avoid these scammers.
A well qualified lead is worth several hundred dollars but not several thousand, in most consumer businesses. Each business must determine the value of a lead but the fees charged for these leads are on par with leads for multi-million dollar real estate transactions on commercial properties.
To protect our business, it doesn’t pay to make enemies so, please publish anonymously. Thanks-
From LinkedIn Groups:
This is a tough issue, as evidenced by the many opinions shared, and which will be shared. For the average ‘consumer’ (who is often in the position of reluctantly acting as another ‘consumers’ representative) the senior care world is one that has it’s own terms, language, legal and financial implications, that tangent to Medicare or Medicaid, etc., etc. Usually, all a ‘consumer’ wants is to feel they’re making the best choice possible for an aging loved one’s care. But never being exposed to the world of senior care before, is like trying to understand credit card legal-documents – when you’re highly stressed and emotionally burdened.
If age issues were taught (like financial issues should be taught) in schools, then people wouldn’t have the reluctance or fear to understand. There are no TV shows about the senior care world, no high-traffic blogs with discussions about seniors, care, etc.
Bottom line is that agencies, referral sources, etc., are right now being ‘all hands on deck’ to help wherever is necessary in this patchwork system that’s evolved. We at GeriCareFinder.com constantly endeavor to create and provide useful information as well as sources, for every kind of senior care possible, to help ‘consumers’ with this exact issue.
Posted by Ron
I have just signed up for two. I m going to wait, to see if they will refer clients to my company. I hope it works. I hope they refer clients.
I just used Care Patrol to find a place for my mother. She’s been in 2 facilities previously, but one over-medicated her, and the second one just wasn’t all that clean. I never would have known about the one I selected, had I not contacted Care Patrol. After filling out a brief questionaire online, I was contacted by a local representative who took me out one morning to show me 3 different types of facilities. One was outstanding, and I moved mom in last week. They saved me countless hours. Had I known about these services the first time, I might not have had to move my mom so often. I would highly recommend this service. A marketing director can only reach so many people; this more than doubles the efforts of a marketing team.
From Linkedin Groups:
Ron Kustek • This is a tough issue, as evidenced by the many opinions shared, and which will be shared. For the average ‘consumer’ (who is often in the position of reluctantly acting as another ‘consumers’ representative) the senior care world is one that has it’s own terms, language, legal and financial implications, that tangent to Medicare or Medicaid, etc., etc. Usually, all a ‘consumer’ wants is to feel they’re making the best choice possible for an aging loved one’s care. But never being exposed to the world of senior care before, is like trying to understand credit card legal-documents – when you’re highly stressed and emotionally burdened.
If age issues were taught (like financial issues should be taught) in schools, then people wouldn’t have the reluctance or fear to understand. There are no TV shows about the senior care world, no high-traffic blogs with discussions about seniors, care, etc.
Bottom line is that agencies, referral sources, etc., are right now being ‘all hands on deck’ to help wherever is necessary in this patchwork system that’s evolved. We at GeriCareFinder.com constantly endeavor to create and provide useful information as well as sources, for every kind of senior care possible, to help ‘consumers’ with this exact issue.
From LinkedIn Groups:
You are right, there are good and bad companies out there. I have owned Assisted Living Homes in the San Diego & Palm Springs area and understand the business. I am now doing placement in those areas. Our company agents tours a facility to consider what facility may fit our clients needs. I or one of our agents go with the family to introduce the family to the administrator to discuss the needs of the senior to be placed. We would never place a client with first seeing the facility to consider all aspects of the client & hormony of all parties. Fay Le Roy
From LinkedIn Groups:
Faye Leroy • Helping and caring for the senior community wherever necessary helps the general public understand. Every one needs this. All will be there someday if they are lucky
From LinkedIn Groups:
Lisa Hollier, CSA, SCPM • Like any other service industry, there are bound to be agencies that provide little value and could be considered a “rip off.” I also know there are agencies (like mine!) which provide a real value to both our clients and the partners with whom we work (a.k.a., the ALFs). I am committed to getting to know my clients and their unique needs– this is then used to identify potential communities which will match their needs and preferences. I feel confident that my clients would attest to the support I provide– take a look at my testimonials and you can see for yourself! (www.choiceconnections.com/richmond). I also know that there are others who provide an excellent service as well– I think it becomes a job of the ALF administrators to know how to differentiate between those who provide value and those who don’t!
From LinkedIn Groups:
Linda Armas, CSA • Seniors and families in need of placement assistance are already overwhelmed and confused. There is often a serious health condition and/or some form of dementia involved. The consequences of making a wrong choice may be severe, and at best it is time and money lost that can never be recovered.
I have great respect for those placement or referral agencies which take the time and make the effort to personally visit each facility they recommend (including unannounced visits), They often know the “inside information” which is not always available to the public, such as which places are in financial trouble, have high staff turnover, have a record of complaints or licensing deficiencies, etc.. There are agencies which, as Tina pointed out earlier, will make an effort to assist all income levels, regardless of whether they will earn a commission. It is an added advantage if they are able to assist with explaining state forms, evaluate contracts and suggest changes, help negotiate best prices, and (especially in a shared room situation), ensure compatibility with other residents. Following up after move-in to make sure the new resident is adjusting well and the family is satisfied, and addressing any complaints or misunderstandings is important. Recommendations to community resources that families often are not aware of can also help immensely.
If we could trust every facility to accurately communicate their strengths and weaknesses and truly look out for the best interests of prospective residents rather than having their primary goal to increase their census, it might be different. I can’t tell you how many places I’ve visited with beautiful brochures and websites with nice photoshopped pictures of happy people in nice surroundings, but the illusion may be far from reality.
Most states do not regulate placement agencies, so there are no qualifications or minimum standards. There are wide varieties of quality, but there are good ones with ethics, experience and knowledge providing a valuable service out there.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Steve McAndrew • We are about to terminate a contract with a major referral agency. The last straw was a resident transferring from one of our communities to another for increased care needs. The representative approached the receiving community wanting another full fee paid out. Enough is enough…
From LinkedIn Groups:
Jamison Gosselin • @Steve – I’ve had to deal with this too in a former role from several referral services. One persuasive argument they used was that the family had gone to them to find a new community for their loved one. It doesn’t sound like that was the case with your situation, but it does seem bizarre until they say that they could have simply referred to other properties not in the chain of communities they live today. Like most things, I think it is all about communication — better communication from the referral service; and some times, better communication from the community management. It’s also important to see what your agreement says with these services — your agreement or addendums may explicitly spell out activities like the one you’ve encountered.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Linda Armas, CSA • To address the above comments by Steve and Jamison: I have often had families contact me to help relocate their loved one because they weren’t happy with some aspect of the facility they were currently living in. My first question is “Have you tried to discuss this with the management?” Almost always the answer is “No”. When I investigate further, in a small number of cases I’ve found real problems that needed to be reported, as I am required to do as a mandated reporter. In a sense I am an extra set of eyes and ears to ensure residents are treated properly. The vast majority of cases the issues could easily be resolved with just a discussion with management and staff and some minor accommodations, but families are sometimes afraid or don’t understand their rights. Speaking for myself, my primary goal is to prevent relocations whenever possible if arrangements can be made to satisfy everyone (even though it is pro-bono for me).
In the case where a resident is transferred from one facility to another within the same system, if this was strictly an internal matter with open communication with the family to assist them in meeting their care needs with the transfer, there should have been no need for a placement agency to even be involved. However, if the family was unhappy and initiated the search for a new place by contacting the placement agency instead of discussing the matter with management, and the placement agency in turn helped the family find the new place (which happened to be owned by the same company), then they did their job and probably deserve to be paid for it. I don’t know the details, and if it is a case where the move was arranged internally and they are attempting to get paid for something they didn’t do, then that’s very unethical and their contract should be canceled.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Steve McAndrew • Actually, Linda, the situation in question is the second scenario. There was no dissatisfaction, and very open communication with this couple. It was simply a matter of one spouse needing Alzheimer’s care, which we do not provide but our sister community does. The placement agency learned of the transfer and came looking for a fee from the sister community. Hence the concern.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Linda Armas, CSA • Wow Steve! That’s just wrong and practices like that should be exposed. It’s greedy tricks like that that can give the whole industry a bad name. I truly believe if it’s done right, it should be a win/win partnership for all parties involved (the communities, families and the placement agencies).
From LinkedIn Groups:
Tina L. Butler, CSA • Due to some of these sort of poor business practices, I believe we are going to see more regulation/licensure in the referral placement industry. Personally, I welcome purging those companies lacking business integrity!
From LinkedIn Groups:
Angela Olea, RN • I am the founder of Assisted Living Locators a placement and referral service for seniors. I am a registered nurse and provide training for each and every eldercare advisor in our organization. Our eldercare advisors consists of team of nurses, social workers as well as many different backgrounds from nursing to realestate. We disclose how we are paid to the families we work with. We also provide assistance to many we do not get placement fees for. Placement fees are a significant expense for the communities but is also the only advertising you pay for after you see the results.
From LinkedIn Groups:
George Mozes • I am happy to hear that there are some agencies that inform their clients on how they are paid. I believe all agencies should do that.
I would like to find out how agencies train their advisors and how much time the advisor spends in eliciting pertinent info from the client and in explaining the client all the options he/she has. Furthermore, how is the knowledge gained from the interview translated into a referral. Something is missing or wrong in this process if I get a visit from a prospective resident who tells me that the agency gave her a list of 6 places and she feels she needs to see them all to make an informed decision. What I am hinting at is that without a clear knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each facility the client is sent to, the advisor has only two choices: give the client a laundry list of facilities or send the client to the facility that is willing to pay a “premium,” or has some kind of sweetheart deal with the agency. In either case, the agency does a disservice to the client because, most likely, the referral is not based on matching the needs of the client to what the facility can offer.
From LinkedIn Groups:
sue groppe • Angela, I would strongly recommend that your eldercare advisor’s work along with a GCM. It’s not happening at all in my area and it would so benefit the client. I do the assessment since I am trained with the clinical background. I am wondering if your staff go with the client on tours of the facility? This is cruicial in making a good decision. I try to keep my recommendations to 3 faclities. It is way to stressful of a process to tour so many. I look foward to working with your eldercare advisor’s if this is at all possible in the future.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Angela Olea, RN • Training is dependent on the experience that one brings to the position and
is individualized to focus on the strength and weaknesses of each advisor.
Our trained advisors will attempt to obtain a detailed assessment from the
client and or contact which begins immediately with a phone call, email
and/or personal assessment. We know this discovery process helps elicit
pertinent information which includes; urgency, location, budget, social,
care needs and personal preferences. If we have a local advisor in a
particular area, our preference would be to personally meet with the
Community Relations Director and tour the community directly. Second choice
would be to have an appointment to speak directly with the Marketing Team
and address specific community questions, until an onsite meeting can be
arranged. Communities are required to fill out a Profile Form and we
reference the submitted information when making a match. There are facts
that many people are unaware of: 1)some state(s) require you do not tour
with the family, 2)some state(s) require a flat fee regardless of what the
monthly fee is 3)some state(s) require you provide a list of all the
properties in the surrounding area. In reference to the states outside of
those restrictions, our preference is to personally tour with the client,
if that is not an option, we can set up the tour (3 or 4 places based on
the preference of the above pertinent information), they are provided with
the places to contact directly. Even though placement can be very rewarding
there are no guarantees of placement and/or payment by the properties. And
unlike real estate it is without the benefit of a very large commission.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Angela Olea, RN • I agree with you that the relationship with GCM and placement is not
utilized as it could be and both can be a value to one another if the fit
is right. As you know not Advisors or GCMs are created equal. I responded
to another comment regarding touring. If the state permits, our preference
is to tour with the family so we can modify options, if needed based on the
immediate feedback; however, we provide the family with as much or as
little assistance as they prefer. I agree that too many facilities can be
confusing and overwhelming for everyone. The options should be provided and
toured if logistically possible with the options that meets the most
needs/wants of the client. If they would like additional options, we
provide that as well.
From LinkedIn Groups:
Thank you Angela for clarifying a few facts that I did not know. It seems to me that we (RCFEs) are mostly concerned with our own locality or perhaps region, and tend to forget (or not be interested) that other states can have very different rules and regulations for placement agencies. To tell you the truth, I don’t even know what these rules and regulations are in California. But I would like to find out.
Posted by George
From LinkedIn Groups:
Tina mentioned Medicaid clients being ‘pro-bono’ and I Wish! Our agencies here in South FL have no problem charging for those people too! Has not worked well for me in the past. Got one placed by an agency, and the family took her out as Soon as she got VA benefits, after I’d let her stay 3 months for Less than Half our normal rate. Daughter Said she knew she still owed the difference, but here we are MONTHS later nothing yet. Our budget at a small (6-bed) place is Not Absorbing those losses…
Posted by Doreen
From LinkedIn Groups
Chuck Bongiovanni, MSW,MBA,CSA •
I would like to see families having more choice as to who they want to work with. When families find CarePatrol, (we are national, but are local and personally tour), they choose to work with us over other large agencies that “send them a list” and never personally meet with them. Can you say “pick up the Yellow Pages and find a community”. My personal bias comes in when these big, non-personal agencies demand payment from communities even after families choose to work with us or any other “hands on” agency. Who are they to think that just because they gave a community a “name and number” first, that they now own the rights to this family for the next year. The family has a choice to whom they want to work with and who works harder for them.
From LinkedIn Groups
Barbara Sharpe •
I work for a large referral agency. This industry is growing rapidly and so is our business. We do have a code of ethics that we follow and we our relationships with our families and our partner communities is the key to our continued success. I hate to hear of situations were someone worked with a representative and didn’t have a good experience. We don’t meet the families in person, Chuck, but we are certainly far from “pick up the yellow pages and find a community.” I visit each of the communities in Southwest Michigan as frequently as I can so that I can accurately tell the families about the communities. We do screen the families as well so that we can give as qualified a lead as possible to the communities. My role is to advise that family throughout the process because, as you know, this can be so overwhelming for them. No one agency is the right fit for every family. Some need that personal touch that comes from an in-person contact. Others don’t. However, I can say for sure that I never give someone a list and then never talk to them again. I stay in touch with my families until they move in to a community or until the person passes away. While it’s generally only a matter of weeks or months, it can take years for a person to agree to make the move. I’m glad that there are organizations like CarePatrol out there for the families who need/want that. I’m equally as glad to be working for a company who does such great work for so many families every year.
From LinkedIn Groups
Amira Fahoum
• Steve- I have been reading this thread because I was intrigued by your question and the answers. I, too, have had a situation where a major referral agency referred out to several communities, they chose another community, and then eventually moved to ours. However, they also wanted to collect on this referral a SECOND time! I personally feel it is double-dipping and is unethical. However, it can be very difficult to prove that the family would have heard about your community through other professionals in their area (although they usually do). This has happened more than once and everyone cringes each time they have to approve an invoice for thousands of dollars, when yes, we’ve done all the work. I would also like to point out, which I’m not sure anyone else has yet that we should be working to find the BEST FIT for all of our elders- a place where they feel comfortable and at ease. The best fit may not always have a contract with a referral agency- nor should they be required to. Half of our communities are at or very near 100% occupancy and all of them have gotten there without or with very little help of referral agencies. So, I must say, they are not the lifeblood of your occupancy. Thank you for asking this question and sparking a great discussion!
From LinkedIn Groups
Ron Kustek •
Steve – the debate you’ve rightfully sparked, I believe, points to the balance that all facilities need in their approach to consumers – don’t put all your communication eggs in 1 basket (i.e., just referral agencies). The challenge is to be on the better senior care websites + local relationships with people-to-people referrals + your own online presence + community, church, etc., truly a multi-approach challenge!
From LinkedIn Groups:
Chuck Bongiovanni, MSW,MBA,CSA
• Steve, I’m going to be devil’s advocate here. I am CEO of a nationally franchised Senior Placement Company called CarePatrol. We are a national company but have local franchisees who personally meet with our families and tour clients to the assisted living properties. I agree that it may not be a good practice to “double dip” for a client who moved into another community, please remember that many times the referral agency should be refunding the first community and then getting paid by the second community, so it may not be “double dipping”
However, I want to address another issue that hear all the time from people who do not understand our industry. The question I ask is this. If people feel that it is “Unethical” for referral agencies to NOT REFER to communities they are not contracted with, but may be the best “fit” for the senior, is it as equally “unethical” for a community not to accept a resident which may be “the best fit” because they don’t have the finances to afford the community?
From LinkedIn Groups
Steve Moran •
I really do appreciate all of the comments in this discussion. Chuck I do not think it is unethical to only refer to those communities where there is a financial relationship with the following provisions:
1. The prospects and the families understand you are getting paid and do not work with every single licensed community.
2. That you are in fact making an appropriate placmentment which includes ensuring that the resident has sufficent financial resources to pay both the base fee and whatever extra costs are likely to be incurred.
The practice I find to be most problematic is where a referal agency recommends 3 or 4 places to look at then sends that same name out to 30-40 communities as a reserved name. I would feel a lot more comfortable if agencies got their fee only if the resident moved into the ones actually recommended.
I wanted to share some of the challenges that reputable placement agencies encounter: After meeting with families and showing them places which would be the best fit for their loved one, we follow up to make sure everything is working out and all parties are satisfied. When we are paid a commission, (which we need to cover our advertising costs, insurance and other expenses), it is accurately recorded and taxes are paid as required.
Here is one incident that just happened to me which illustrates the huge underground economy that exists in this industry: A few days ago I called a licensed care home asking if they have a vacancy for one of my clients. A caregiver answered the phone and in broken English, (assuming I was looking for a room for a family member), tried to instead talk me into one-on-one in-home care “very cheap”. A few minutes later I received a call from a caregiver #2, in another home telling me that she knows someone else who has a room available and would call me. Very shortly I received a call from the owner of facility #3 who finally realized I was a referral agency. She told me she’d be happy to accommodate my client but was upset I didn’t call her first because now she owed 25% to person #1 and 25% to person #2, and after paying my commission there would be nothing left for her. Because this home was truly was the best option for my client, I did agree to adjust my commission so my client could move in, but there’s clearly something wrong with this picture. I did inform the employers of home #1 and #2 of the actions of their employees, but these types of actions take place every day with employees of hospitals, nursing homes, home health agencies, etc.
From LinkedIn Groups:
As a placement agent, we also have many challenges to face. I am dealing with a situation this week of a gentleman who was placed in a care home over a year ago. His wife is unhappy with the care and was not satisfied with the service from the previous well-known agency that she worked with originally. She contacted me to help her find a more appropriate place, however the previous agency somehow found out her husband had submitted his 30 day notice to move, and proceeded to fax his information (which is over a year old and very inaccurate) to almost every home in the area. Although they have no contact with the family and are doing none of the work, the way their contract is worded they will likely succeed in claiming a commission. I will continue to assist this family because it’s the right thing to do and it’s not right for families to be involved in these types of disputes.
Recently I had a similar situation with this same agency. The family I was working with were attorneys, looking for assisted living for their mom. A distant relative from another state entered information on a website, innocently trying to help them find a place, and unaware the family would soon be barraged with unwanted solicitations from every facility in the area as a result. The attorney son contacted the national office demanding to have their contact information removed and stating he had not contacted them and had no interest in working with them. Soon after, I received a call from the local agent of this company stating that she was told not to contact this family, but I should be aware the commission would still belong to her because she was acting on behalf of the distant family member who contacted her and was within her rights to claim the placement.
Posted by Linda
From LinkedIn Groups
Again, another reason to support legislation for the referral industry. Washington state passed a bill to protect the consumer from these unethical business practicies stated abundantly throughout this thread.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Amendments/Senate/1494-S.E%20AMS%20ENGR%20S2640.E.pdf
For reputable placement services, this document provides what should be standard service guidelines. For further information see http://blog.choiceadvisory.com/
Until legislation comes to fruition in all states, I implore senior living communities to take back control by refusing to pay bogus commissions!
Posted by Tina L.
From LinkedIn Groups
I grew up working in my grandparent’s AL in Idaho and a few years ago I brought them into the 21st century by creating their online presence for the first time. I also signed the contract with several referral agencies, both large and small. I was tremendously impressed by the large referral agency’s representative in Boise, who provided us with great tips and best practices – she was incredible! I decided then that I wanted to watch her company, and perhaps join their team one day. I now work in Washington State where we DO have regulations for referral agencies.
What many of our partners do not realize is the enormous time we put in with a family, to develop a relationship with them, send them articles, educate them on the options available, on financial resources, on our state’s Medicaid practices, and help them get Meals on Wheels or discounts on utility bills, and how much we follow up with that family on a consistent basis. Too many times families do not want ANYTHING more than just a list AND to know the average cost. I have to educate them on the value of what they pay for, and get them to tour.
By building a relationship that accountability is forged between both. I recently referred a family to an AL, only to find out that AL had spoken with one of the siblings two years before and did not want my help, despite me reconnecting them again. When the family called again asking about this community, I sang their praises and said they could not go wrong by moving there. Since then, the marketing director and I have forged a great relationship and we both are willing to bend over backwards for each other. She no longer hates our referral agency!
My advice to communities partnering with referral agencies: invite the advisor over for lunch. bcc them on email communication to the family so they can see your talking points. Consistently call/email for updates on the family. Invite the advisor to fun events – raising $ for veterans? Invite. Hosting an Italian dinner night? Invite. Also, if you are the owner/manager, be kind to your Marketing Directors. When they see their numbers drop and are sweating that they may lose their job, they sometimes take it out on us, advisors for referral agencies.
My advice to referral agencies and their advisors: do not “spray and pray” by referring the family to 10+ communities. Refer to 2-4, then expand if the family does not like what they see. Keep in close touch with your partners – get out and network with them, develop a relationship, earn their trust. Consistently update communities on the families you have sent them, even when you’ve been calling for a month with no response from the family, let that community know and develop a game plan to get that family in for a tour.
Referral agencies exist to weed-out unqualified families and re-direct them to places that will work for them. I have about 100 families contact me each month, and a good 40% are Medicaid, a good 30% are needing a Senior Apartment, a good 15% need an Adult Family Home (AFH), the last 15% are looking for AL, on average. A good majority of people calling always state their parent needs a nursing home, and after going over the questionaire I find out the parent is a good candidate for an alternative option. If you represent a long-term care community, your marketing directors can focus on helping people qualified for your community instead of being referrals to a different care option. You only pay when we move a family in, and if that family stays a full year, your financial benefits are huge.
This topic boils down to building personal relationships between local referral agency advisors and the communities they refer to.
Posted by Jen
From LinkedIn Groups
Jen, I admire your comments and your dedication. I just have one concern: Government legislation rarely simplifies anything and often has a side effect of putting honest, reputable small operators out of business. It should only be necessary when an industry is out of control.
It might be optimistic, but I’d far prefer to see self-regulation through educating referral sources of the benefits and risks of this industry (as we’re doing here) and hoping they will show discretion as to whom they chose to work with. Those who pay the commission checks hold the control and don’t have to be victims of unethical practices.
As to complaints that commissions are too high: How many people realize what employment agencies receive for referring a job candidate that gets hired by a corporation? It can be as much as a full years’ salary! usually it’s less, (two or three month’s pay),but still proportionally more than the one month’s (or usually less) commission that goes to a referral agency.
If I receive a call, for example to find a care home with a large master bedroom currently vacant, able to care for a husband wife with specific care needs, requesting staff that speaks and understand their native language, AND serves Kosher food…and if I am able to pinpoint just the right place at the right price and keep everyone involved happy, it’s not luck. It’s the result of many hours of researching, visiting, negotiating and building and maintaining relationships. It’s similar to how people begrudge paying a plumber who is able to quickly fix a leaky pipe. They aren’t just paying for the visit, but for their training and expertise that enabled them to fix the problem. Hope that makes sense.
Posted by Linda
All a good company needs is a good Marketer …..They should be going to the same places these reps are going and if you ahve a good admissions person if there is a family that is just shopping then they can give them information on other local facilities. If you are up front and honest with families they will most likely come back to your facility anyway. As an admissions and Marketing person for a facility I absolutely had no problem letting families know about the other facilities in the area….and more than not they would go and visit and come back to the facility that I was at for their loved one to stay. Fees do not need to o to these sources just find the right marketing team.
Tonya:
It has been a long time since I have been in the trenches but your point is well taken and is my inclination. That being said, what I am hearing at least in my local market place is that many of the root referral sources are so inundated by marketing people that they will not see any of them, and just point them at the referral agencies. I would love to hear from someone who operates in a high vacancy marketplace and has figured out how to fill their units without using the agencies.
Steve Moran
I am the CEO and owner of a reputable referral agency. Like any business, there are those who are ethical and serious about what they do, and others lacking in integrity. The key that is missed so often in these discussions – contracting with a referral agency is optional. Referral agencies exist because they serve two needs. 1) Families are lost and confused and a good (emphasis on good) referral agency is described as a god send by our clients. 2) Properties such as assisted living communities and small residential care homes have vacancies. Vacancies are expensive. While a referral fee may seem excessive if you are on the outside looking in – the return on investment is excellent. In this competitive market most properties offer incentives to move in – many beyond what a referral agency charges. It has been a tougher market for both properties AND referral agencies. This is because of the housing market and the inability to sell a home to pay for care.
There is a difference between those companies generating leads only via the internet, and those, like us, who are part of the communities they serve, tour the properties before making referrals, and know the resources available such as Medicare/Medicaid, Veteran’s Benefits, elder law attorneys, etc.
When using a referral agency, research their website. Who are they and what is their background? (Many sites do not tell you who the “people” are – only a corporation name.) When you talk with them find out how many care options they are contracted with in your community. This should be hundreds – not handfuls! Otherwise your options truly will be limited as it is true, we will refer first to those that we are contracted with. If an agency is doing their job right, they will have a good reputation with the care providers as well as the families they work with, and will be contracted with most community options. These are just a a few things to look for – could write more! As an Eldercare Consultant with more than 20 years in the long term care industry, I can tell you that I love my work everyday and hear the same from my team! We are passionate advocates of quality care for seniors, and take seriously the great responsibility we have for each and every person we work with.
I can see your point of view. There are most definitely “bottom feeders” out there.
I personally had a very hard time placing my own grandmother after months of searching. Today, 10 year later I now offer consulting services to families in need of care. I personally visit each and every single facility and do a thorough assessment of the facility before I will even think about accepting them to contract with my services.
I revisit each facility every 3 months or less. Personally, I will not place a family member in a facility simply because “I” would make a higher commission…. To me that’s ludicrous. I do an extensive evaluation of not only the client but the facilities as well. My heart with the families and their very personal needs – not with how high my
payment is. Not only do I truly care … believe it or not folks their are people out there who actually have compassionate hearts…. I have been a certified hospice volunteer for many years, I am licensed and bonded, I have a master in healthcare from Cornell University, and I firmly believe that all people are connected and deserve love, and thoughtfulness. Unfortunately, every human in America needs money to have electricity, a home, food, and ability support our own families. Consultants do need to be paid for their services somehow. Typically contracting with a facility is a more viable and honorable way of getting paid vs. charging the families that are already dealing with many tough decisions and extremely high cost of care at assisted living facilities.
Again, I agree that there are many ” bottom feeders” in this world and they come in every profession. But, some of us aren’t . We should all try a little hope in humanity and each other.
It is great to hear from somone who is doing it right. The better model of course would be to have seniors higher a consultant would would be paid for and working for the senior, but the market does not work that way.
Thanks for commenting.
Steve Moran
Upon reading your article, I am saddened to admit I agree with many of your view points. It is truly unfortunate that the consumer and often senior client is unaware of the method in which they have been directed to their “new home”.
Whether it be an agency that has monopolized the industry through mass faxing or emailing lists, an agent that has lack of education/knowledge with senior services or care, the industry has taken a turn that the consumer needs to be aware of when making the choice to use a referral service.
I created Altus Senior Placement after working for six years as a Certified Geriatric Care Manager. I was serving seniors with failed placements, evictions, or hospitalizations due to a poor selection process. I learned quickly, one cannot match a senior to a successful placement option strictly by filling out an on-line intake or inquiry by phone. Hence, I was having to recreate the standards by which many consumers had fallen victim.
As a professional in this industry, I created standards by which our agents adhere. I have a team of professionals (MSG, GCM, and RN) educated to properly advise the consumer. I created an assessment by which I determine if a home is suitable to refer.
I, or my staff, visit each home and meet each owner prior to referring to the consumer. The service functions with a select data base of homes that meet a specific criteria and scoring system. Each home is contracted to pay the same referral fee, no tiers or favoritism. Referrals are based on client need, not commission. Each client personally meets with myself or a staff member for an assessment prior to touring placement options. Council, support, advisement, and assistance is provided to each client during the move process. Upon placement, we provide follow-up at a minimum of two months to assure success.
In reference to “major problems”, I have some advise for the consumer:
1. “Putting a head in a bed” is not considered a successful placement. One may research the longevity of these referrals, as many fail due to a poor selection process. Avoid a list of placement options if it was provided to you in less than two hours after phone or on-line consultation with an agent.
2. Select an adviser with credentials, licensing, education, and a history working with the senior population. Avoid agencies with no experience, never meet with the client, or set foot in the home they are referring.
3. Utilize an agency with a fair and ethical selection process. Ask if they visit each home they refer and the standards for which they accept and refer each home. Do not work with agencies that charge their referrals or utilize tier structures in attempt to only refer to higher commission homes.
4. A referral list should have 4-8 options with a range of pricing.
5. Seek a referral service that visits and conducts an assessment of each home they refer. The consumer should have access to this assessment upon request.
As with many industries, referral agencies have faulty, unethical, and poor practices present. I believe serving our senior population should be a passion and valued service. We are being trusted to advise a client in sometimes the last stages of life. I believe in and the service I deliver. It is my hope that this industry strive to meet higher standards, but the consumer must be diligent in supporting those referral agencies providing a quality and thorough service.
I’m glad to see another ethical person in this field. I especially liked your comment that “Putting a head in a bed” is not considered a successful placement. The agency I worked for always did follow-ups–at the very least a phone call to the family to make sure everything was ok, and we tried to visit.
Keep up the good work!
I worked for a family-owned referral agency for several years, and I can tell you that though there are certainly unethical people in this business, not all are. The owners of the business I worked for got certified to run an RCFE themselves so they knew what the requirements were, and became gerontological counselors. They truly understand seniors needs. Many agencies hire marketing people to be “Placement Advisors” or whatever they choose to put on their nametags. My background was in nursing. We worked hard to get people into the right facility, not the one that would pay us the largest fee. We found out what the needs of the client were, their budget, and what area they preferred, and worked hard to get them in the facility to best meet their needs, as well as driving them around to see the facilities. Many agencies just provide people with a list. Big help. I had one client who was “stolen” from me by another agency–we had them all set up to move into one facility, and an employee of the other agency walked into her hospital room and told her the discharge planner had sent him to make her placement, and then promptly moved her into the most expensive facility in the area, where her money was bound to run out. But he got a bigger fee, so he didn’t care. We learned our lesson then– we used contracts after that.
The President of the company I worked for had been on the other end of the problem. She had to find assisted living for her mother many miles away. That was what prompted her to start the business. I had to deal with placing my own mother, from far away as well. I imagine it’s frustrating to CEO’s of facilities to have to pay a referral fee. But the families we’ve helped do not consider our service a scam. When you have a loved one who needs placement, the number of facilities and horror stories can be paralyzing. And we do marketing for them as well by bringing people to their facilities who might not have found it otherwise–shouldn’t we get some reimbursement? So think about that before you paint the entire industry with one brush.
I sympatize with Lynn’s concern over the referral industry. I work for an in-home primary care firm in Washington state which has set up a referral “agency” as part of its offered services. Our doctors and RNP’s visit each facility on our approved referral list monthly and advise our staff as to recommended or undesirable assisted living or adult family homes. We then tour each and every facility prior to making any referral – our aim is to make the right placement for the client and his/her family.
It is very frustrating to learn of the practices of competing referral agencies, the “bottom feeders” as some have called them: paying ER nursing staff (kick-backs) for referrals, obtaining exclusive contracts before the patient has even been placed in a nursing facility then, on the promise of a fee, sending the family out to visit facilities on their own, without informing them of what care can (more often, cannot) be provided in the senior home; placing seniors in a facility, only to yank them out 2-3 months later because they’ve “found a more suitable home,” thus collecting a second referral fee from a new facility.
Yes, Washington does have a model law governing referral agencies – but the law has loopholes to drive a small truck through! While there are reputable agencies, many are forced into using cut-throat and downright unethical practices so as to “steal” clients from their competitors.
So, what is the answer? Not legislation, since it obviously can’t foresee every unethical scenario. Perhaps ethical Assisted Living and Adult Family Home owners should band together and refuse to pay referral fees – only then will the playing field be leveled, and the ruthless will move on to more lucrative enterprises.
I have stayed out of this conversation thus far – appreciating that properties either love or hate referral agencies! I am the founder of a referral agency, with over 23 years of experience in the long term care industry, including both skilled and assisted living, as an administrator and as a marketing director. I will spare you all the details why we receive such joy in our work – but will say that we recognize we service in a dual agent role. The properties that we work with have expressed appreciation for the quality referrals received from sources that they are not also marketing to, and would not have found them without our assistance. The families we work with express gratitude for the peace of mind they have found – both in having someone to educate them and walk them through the process, as well as locating quality options that meet their specific clinical, financial, and personal needs and desires.
With that said – I have a few thoughts this time to share. There are always going to be a few bad apples in any industry, including care providers. This also includes referral agents. The industry itself will drive out the bad ones by refusing to work with those that don’t work with transparency, integrity, and in the best interest of the elderly client.
I spent many months in Olympia during the legislative session that created the new law regulating referral agencies. I initially fought the original bill as written, as it represented a true lack of understanding of the role of a referral agency (versus a geriatric care manager) and created many obstacles for consumers. I am proud that some of the language we suggested, and changes to the bill, are now in the law, and consumers are protected under the Consumer Protection Act. Interestingly enough, the word on the street (can’t vouch for the authenticity), is that there have been only a few handful of complaints by families/consumers, and many more by referral agencies against one another…
I take exception to some of the previous comments categorizing others as “bottom feeders” and repeating rumors of kick backs, etc. If these things are true, then they need to be reported to the attorney general who I understand will investigate if they have been receiving multiple complaints from consumers (not from competitors).
These types of examples were thrown around during the legislative session but not ONE example of direct harm to a consumer was ever produced during stakeholder meetings. Assisted Living Communities and Residential Care Homes are governed by state WACs in Washington to ensure that a qualified assessment is done prior to receiving them into their community/home. This is one more safeguard that was already in place, to ensure that a care provider can meet the needs of the residents.
Lastly, each one of us may have a bit of a different model in how we work. Let’s commit to earning respect from referral sources (and each other) by always doing the right thing, rather than tearing down our competition, sometimes with rumors, untruths, and innuendo, and pressuring stressed out consumers to switch referral agencies during times of confusion and angst. It would appear that there is more in-fighting amongst referral “professionals”, than harm to consumers!
For John – an example of this that you may not be aware of is much discussion about home care agencies also doing placements. There are many in the industry who view this as a conflict of interest. The question has been asked “If a home care agency can receive $12,000/mo for in home care, and that is their primary business, what makes them motivated to provide the best option for the family, outside of a commitment to always doing the right thing for the right reasons?…Perhaps another topic of discussion for this thread?
I love the amazing people I meet every day working in this business! Let’s raise each other up and continue to makie a difference in the lives of those we serve!
Steve,
Thank you for the great discussion and the opportunity to let everyone comment. I just came across this topic, but I do subscribe to your email alerts. I am Co-Founder of http://www.SeniorCareHomes.Com and we have been around since 2008. To give you a little background, I grew up in healthcare working at my father’s lab since I was in my teens. I then helped build one of the first IT Call Centers in Manila (a U.S. company). We started with 20 reps and grew it to about 300 by the time I left. They now went IPO with and have 15,000 reps worldwide. It was a blessing. My wife and I were both executives and were asking ourselves “how can we use our healthcare and technology background to help families find good facilities across the U.S.” We both grew up with a deep respect for our elders and wanted to help families that don’t know where to go for good care. That is how our company was founded. Our founders and advisors are experienced doctors, gerontologists and successful business executives. We started in Orange County, California, but have now expanded all across the U.S. in 50 states.
MY TAKE: To be completely honest with you, I am not the biggest fan of placement and referral fees. It’s interesting that you brought up the topic because the idea of placements fees is something that we struggled with initially because we saw the downside of which you mentioned. At the same time, we turned those negatives into positives as much as we could with our resources and it has worked out great for us. Here are some of our thoughts on it:
1) KNOWING WHERE TO REFER TO: We actually make an extra effort and investment to visit most of the facilities we refer too. It’s important to know where you are referring to. Now we have thousands and thousands of facilities we work with across the U.S. and it’s worked out great.
2) REFERRING TO HIGHER PAYING FACILITIES: We actually try to really prequalify the families, listen to their exact needs and send them 2-3 options (unless the family requests for more). There is no need to overwhelm the families if you listen to them carefully. Also, we do not like to waste the time of the owners or community directors. It’s a Golden Rule to not waste other’s time with unqualified leads that are not a fit. If we were in their shoes, we would not want the same to happen to us. There are some agencies that we know that do blanket all the facilities from a 50 mile radius or more. They really want to earn their commission. Everyone does business a certain way, but that is not our style. We like to focus on quality to save everyone time and have higher conversion rates.
We also send out the families to facilities that are a match for budget, despite how much we will make. Maybe it’s to our fault, but it’s enabled us have a better turn out and relationship with the families we help and the facilities. Everyone here should also understand that many of the agencies mentioned above have big Wall Street / Silicon Valley investors. Those investors only care about revenue and profits at the end of the day. So it can be understandable why some blanket all the communities and give the families tons of options. Those agencies have a certain quota they have to make per month and that’s the way it is. Thank God we don’t have to answer to Venture Capitalists or Angel Investors or they would be upset with us. We have used our own savings and investment from our prior careers so we are flexible and can put the interest of the families and facilities first.
3) PLACEMENT VS. MONTHLY AD COSTS: There are risks in any business. Some companies charge for leads. Some charge monthly fees. Some placement agencies I have heard buy leads and use them for their leads. It’s all quite interesting. The Pros of paying a monthly fee is that IF you are getting quality leads, you pay a lower cost than a referral fee. One successful move in, you obviously cover your advertisement cost by 1000 fold. However, if you get bad leads and do not get any move ins, you feel burned and feel that you’re wasting your money. For Big Communities who have advertising budgets, this is “no skin off their back.” However, if you are a small residential care home, not getting a return on your investment plus dealing with other expenses, it’s a big deal.
With Placement Fees, sure it’s a bigger fee and some do charge 75 to 100%, but it’s a lower risk because you get a resident that moves into your facility. In my honest opinion, I believe anything over 50% is unfair to the facilities (even if they are doing well and have a bigger budget). That is why we actually have a flat 50% placement fee (rate is locked in) AFTER the resident stays for 30 days. We also keep great communication with the family and the community or owner before they tour and after. We also follow up with the family after they’ve moved in because we want to help the facility retain the resident and have lower turnover as much as possible. It’s just the way we’ve always done business since we’ve started our careers.
You might ask why am I sharing all of this information on our business model. We just want to help bottom line and help provide guidance to some other agencies who might be just starting out. In our humble opinion, we’ve learned to have a successful business, you have to add value. If you think about the money first and the quick buck, you’re not putting the interest of your customers first. That’s how some other companies do business and that’s their prerogative. The good businesses in the industry that do care know “The Secret.” It’s the Secret in life and all of business. If you prioritize and focus on adding value first, being a great service and wanting to truly help (despite if you get paid or if you do not), the money ALWAYS takes care of itself naturally. You just have to be patient, but always focus on the long term and building relationships. At the end of the day, your reputation is all you have and if you care, you will put your families and clients first.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly. Our website is http://www.seniorcarehomes.com.
To a great 2013 to all of us.
Best Regards,
Erwin Allado
Co-Founder & CEO at SeniorCareHomes.Com
Thank you for your comments. I have recieved 1 referral from A Place For Mom and the resident required more care which meant I had to bring in. Extra workers to meet the need of our new resident. Praise God this resident was healed and was able o return back into his own home. However I tried to explain that we couldn’t pay 1/2 of what we received from the family because the family only paid a portion what they agreed due to a crisis. I was ok to pay in payments a fare price. They could not understand that we take care of people not chairs and situations in families income and in our homes change. Residents needs change. We understand the hardship of our residents families at time trying to juggle home , work and school and marriage and take care of parents. We started our homes to give those that have paved the way for us the opportunity to stay in the communities they have built and hear the dogs barking , kids laughing , and see the sea gulls and sparrows swoop down and eat a piece of bread they tossed out. I pray for your success in 2013.
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I can see there are good points here in this discussion, does anyone here remember the Seattle Times Seniors for Sale? I do. as someone before me has said there are good and there are bad placement agencies. For us we do not use agencies. I have a very difficult time swallowing the idea a middle man is needed or useful. I miss the days of meet and greet. Discharge Planners responsibilities have changed in recent years I get that. But when their perspectives changed (discharge planners) my role I to be honest was offended.
I went from a provider to a Vender.
Our shared Patients somehow or another were suddenly referred to as Consumers.
I guess I dont see what the big deal is in regards to referral agencies. I have always had success with them. I look at them as an additional marketing option. How many dollars are spent on advertising, direct mail and big events? If the cost of one referral agency is 60% of the months rent (Example Rent is $3500, and a resident stays in the facility for two years) then the fee would be 2% of the gross revenue that resident generated for the period. And as we all know a resident comes in on the lower fee scale and usually ends of spending more at the end of the stay.
And they are no risk until the resident moves in. I know one community that in one month had 7 move ins all from referral agencies.
So personally I like them and will continue to use them.
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